Long-Term Care COVID-19 Commission and The Geronticide Debrief

Long-Term Care COVID-19 Commission 

Graham Webb, Jane Meadus, Alyssa Lane   on Wednesday, September 23, 2020   77 King Street West, Suite 2020   Toronto, Ontario M5K 1A1  neesonsreporting.com | 416.413.7755 

MEETING OF THE LONG-TERM CARE COVID-19 COMMISSION

Held Virtually via Zoom,   with all participants attending remotely,   on the 23rd day of September, 2020,   1:02 p.m. to 2:52 p.m.

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BEFORE: 

• The Honourable Frank N. Marrocco
• Lead Commissioner Angela Coke
• Commissioner Dr. Jack Kitts, Commissioner 

The best way to prevent the spread of COVID-19 is to practice social distancing, wear a face covering when in public, wash your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds, avoid touching your face, cover your mouth and nose when you sneeze or cough, clean and disinfect frequently touched surfaces daily, and stay home if you are feeling sick.

PRESENTERS:

• Graham Webb, Executive Director, Advocacy Centre for the Elderly
• Jane Meadus, Staff Lawyer and Institutional Advocate, Advocacy Centre for the Elderly
• Alyssa Lane, Staff Lawyer and Institutional Advocate, Advocacy Centre for the Elderly 

The best way to prevent the spread of COVID-19 is to practice social distancing, wear a face covering when in public, wash your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds, avoid touching your face, cover coughs and sneezes, clean and disinfect frequently touched surfaces, and stay home if you are feeling sick.

PARTICIPANTS:

• Alison Drummond, Assistant Deputy Minister, Long-Term Care Commission Secretariat
• Ida Bianchi, Counsel, Long-Term Care Commission Secretariat
• Derek Lett, Policy Director, Long-Term Care Commission Secretariat
• Lynn Mahoney, Counsel to the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care 

The best way to prevent the spread of COVID-19 is to practice social distancing, wear a face covering when in public, wash your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds, avoid touching your face, cover your mouth and nose when you cough or sneeze, clean and disinfect frequently touched surfaces daily, and stay home if you are feeling sick.

ALSO PRESENT: 

• Judith M. Caputo, Stenographer/Transcriptionist

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BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

MR. WEBB: Yes, everyone is here.

MR. SMITH:  Yes, let’s get started.

Thank you, Commissioner Marrocco. I’m ready to begin.

So thank you very much for your time and I look forward to hearing your questions.

MR. KENNEDY:  Thank you, I will certainly do that.

MR. GILL:  Yes, sir.

COMMISSIONER MARROCCO:  Thank you.

MR. GILL:  Thank you.

So, you know, I think that’s a really important thing to remember. And I think it’s also important to remember that the inspection process is not perfect. It’s a very difficult job for the inspectors; they’re going in and they’re trying to do their best. But it’s also very subjective, and it relies on people being able to speak up and be heard. And if people are not capable of doing that, or if they’re fearful of doing that, then those issues may not be found.

 So, it’s a really difficult situation for families to be in.

 And that’s why we’re so frustrated with the inspection reports, because they don’t tell you what happened. They just say, there was a noncompliance and here’s the plan of correction. But it doesn’t tell you what happened.

CHAIRMAN BERRY:  Yes.

COMMISSIONER KITTS:  I’m just curious, what is the process for getting a permit? Is it an application process or is it something that you have to go through with the state?

CHAIRMAN BERRY:  It depends on the type of permit you’re looking for. Generally speaking, most permits require an application to be submitted to the appropriate agency or department. Depending on the type of permit, there may also be additional requirements such as public hearings or environmental reviews. Once all of the necessary information has been gathered and reviewed, a decision will be made on whether or not to issue the permit.

MS. MEADUS:  I’m a big believer in the power of education and I think that it’s important for everyone to have access to quality education. I believe that education should be accessible to all, regardless of their background or financial situation. I also believe that education should be tailored to meet the needs of each individual student, so that they can reach their full potential. Finally, I believe that education should be engaging and inspiring, so that students are motivated to learn and grow.

The Ministry of Labour plays an important role in ensuring that employers comply with the Employment Standards Act and other labour laws. The Ministry is responsible for enforcing the Employment Standards Act, which sets out minimum standards for wages, hours of work, vacation pay, public holidays, termination and severance pay, and other matters related to employment. The Ministry also provides information and advice to employers and employees on their rights and responsibilities under the law.

 So they would be looking at things like hours of work, overtime, vacation pay, that kind of thing.

No, the Commission does not have any jurisdiction over staff safety or abuse. The Commission is responsible for overseeing the operations of the Department of Corrections and ensuring that it is in compliance with applicable laws and regulations. The Department of Corrections is responsible for providing a safe working environment for its staff and addressing any issues related to staff safety or abuse.

 So it’s not about the employees, it’s about the resident.

Yes, I believe the Ministry of Labour should play a larger role in ensuring that workers are treated fairly and have access to safe working conditions. The Ministry of Labour should be actively involved in monitoring workplace safety standards, enforcing labour laws, and providing education and training opportunities for workers. Additionally, the Ministry of Labour should work with employers to ensure that they are providing fair wages and benefits to their employees.

 And I think that’s something we need to address.

Is there any reason why that hasn’t happened?

The Ministry of Labour has been actively engaged in long-term care for many years, and has conducted numerous inspections and investigations into workplace violence incidents. The ministry also provides education and training to employers and employees on the prevention of workplace violence. In addition, the ministry is currently developing a sector-specific guideline on workplace violence prevention in long-term care homes. This guideline will provide employers with best practices for preventing and responding to workplace violence incidents.

 So I’m wondering if you could talk a little bit about that and how you’re addressing it.

We are very aware of the increasing acuity of our residents and the need to adjust our workforce accordingly. We have implemented a number of initiatives to ensure that our staff is properly trained and equipped to handle the increased acuity levels. We have increased our training requirements for all staff, including specialized training for those working with residents with dementia or other chronic conditions. We have also implemented additional safety protocols, such as providing personal protective equipment (PPE) for all staff members who interact with residents, and conducting regular safety audits to ensure that all safety protocols are being followed. Additionally, we have implemented an electronic health record system which allows us to track changes in resident acuity levels over time and adjust staffing levels accordingly.

 So, I think that’s been a big issue. And then, of course, the acuity level has gone up in long-term care. So, I think that’s been a big problem.

MR. JONES:  Okay, so it’s a very short term loan. What are the terms of the loan?

RESPONSE:  The most common concerns that we heard from residents and families before the pandemic were related to access to quality healthcare, affordable housing, and educational opportunities. Other issues included transportation, public safety, and economic development.

MS. LANE:  We also get complaints about homes not providing adequate care or services to residents.  So maybe they’re not providing enough staff, or the staff are not properly trained, or the home is not following the regulations and standards that are in place.  And we also get complaints about homes charging too much for services, or not providing enough information to residents about their rights and responsibilities.

 So, we have to make sure that people are not discriminated against in terms of access to health care.

MR. WEBB: Yes, it would be appropriate to touch on the outcome of the Casa Verde Inquest and the lack of specialized units behaviour. The inquest found that there were systemic failures in the way police responded to the incident, including a lack of specialized units behaviour. This has led to changes in policy and procedures within law enforcement agencies across Canada, with an emphasis on de-escalation tactics and better training for officers in dealing with mental health crises. Additionally, there have been calls for increased oversight and accountability when it comes to police use of force incidents.

No, I haven’t heard about the Casa Verde Inquest. Could you tell me more about it?

Commissioner Coke does not have the authority to make any changes to the laws governing the sale of alcohol in Texas. This authority lies with the Texas Legislature.

So that’s one of the things that came out of the Casa Verde Inquest.  And it’s still an ongoing issue, because there’s still not enough funding for these specialized units.

Isolation in a long-term care home would mean that a resident is placed in a room by themselves, away from other residents. This could be done for medical reasons, such as if the resident has an infectious disease or is at risk of infection, or for psychological reasons, such as if the resident needs some time alone to process their emotions. Isolation should always be done with the consent of the resident and their family, and should be monitored closely to ensure that it does not become detrimental to the resident’s health and wellbeing.

DR. KIRK:  And so, you know, we’re trying to get a better understanding of what’s going on in the community and how we can help people who are struggling with mental health issues. So, if you could tell us a bit about your experience with mental health services in the community, that would be great.

MS. MEADUS:  Sure. Well, I think one of the biggest challenges is access to services. There are not enough resources available for people who need them and it can be difficult to find the right kind of help when you need it. I also think there is a lack of understanding about mental health issues in general and how they affect people’s lives. People don’t always understand why someone might be struggling or why they need help and this can make it hard for them to get the support they need.

No, isolation is not necessarily a single person in a single room. Isolation can refer to separating an individual from other people or activities, such as in the case of quarantine or social distancing. It can also refer to the practice of keeping certain individuals away from others for medical or security reasons.

 So, you know, it’s a very complex issue.

It is difficult to pinpoint an exact timeline for when it should have been obvious that there was a problem with long-term care homes. However, the issue of inadequate staffing and resources in long-term care homes has been a growing concern for many years. In recent years, reports from various organizations such as the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) have highlighted the need for increased funding and staffing levels in long-term care homes. Additionally, media coverage of issues such as overcrowding, inadequate infection control measures, and other problems in long-term care homes has also raised awareness of the need for improved standards of care. As such, it is likely that the issue of inadequate staffing and resources in long-term care homes should have been addressed much sooner than it was.

 I said, “This is wrong.  My son did not do this.”  And I’ve been saying it ever since.

The beginning of the process would be when the Commissioner is appointed and begins to review the evidence and make a decision on whether or not to proceed with an investigation.

 And I said, you know, we need to do something.  We need to get the government involved and we need to get the resources in there.  And that’s when I started advocating for more resources and more support for long-term care homes.

 And so it was just a really difficult time.

No one said that.

So, that was the result.

People were saying that the government was not doing enough to protect the environment and that more needed to be done. There were also people who argued that the government was doing too much and that it was overreaching its authority. The debate around environmental protection is ongoing, but it’s clear that there is a need for more action from both sides of the political spectrum.

MR. MURRAY:  Yes, I understand. So, the first time that we heard about it was in late August of 2017. That’s when we started to hear from people who were concerned about the potential impacts of the project on their property and their community. And then, as we continued to investigate and look into it, we started to get more information from other sources, including local government officials and members of the public. So, by October of 2017, we had a pretty good understanding of what was going on and what the potential impacts could be.

 So I don’t know if it was really getting through.

MR. MARROCCO:  Yes, go ahead.

MR. WEBB:  That the majority of the people who are speaking in favor of this project are from outside of our district. And I think that speaks to the fact that this is not a project that is supported by the people who live here and will be most affected by it.

MR. KITTS:  Yes, I was just wondering if there were any other questions or comments from the public?

MR. JONES:  No problem. Is there anything else I can help you with?

Dr. Tam:  Yes, that is correct. We have been very clear in our advice to the Ministry of Health that we need to ensure that there are appropriate measures in place to protect residents from potential exposure and transmission of COVID-19. This includes ensuring adequate physical distancing, proper ventilation, and appropriate isolation protocols for those who test positive. We are also advocating for additional resources to be provided to long-term care homes so they can better manage outbreaks and reduce the risk of transmission.

 So I think that’s another area where we’re going to have to look at.

MR. BENTLEY:  Yes.

COMMISSIONER KITTS:  — and we’re going to be looking at the same kind of issues, are you suggesting that there might be a need for us to look at some sort of a different approach?

MR. BENTLEY:  Yes, I think so. I think that the current system is not working as well as it could be and that there needs to be some changes made in order to make it more effective and efficient.

MR. CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

Ms. Lohnes-Croft.

MS. SUZANNE LOHNES-CROFT:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  I’m going to go back to the issue of the wait times for long-term care beds and I know that we have a new system in place now, but I’m wondering if you can tell me what the average wait time is for a long-term care bed in Nova Scotia?

MS. MEADUS:  Yes, I can tell you that the average wait time for a long-term care bed in Nova Scotia is approximately three months.

DR. HUYER:  Yes, that’s what I’m suggesting.  We need to look at the options for cohorting positive patients in a facility outside of the long-term care home, and we need to look at the resources that are available to do that.  We also need to consider how we can best support the staff who are working in these facilities, and how we can ensure that they have access to the necessary personal protective equipment (PPE) and other supports they need to keep themselves safe while caring for these patients.

 So, I think that’s the only way to protect people.

COMMISSIONER GORDON:  Thank you.

CHAIRMAN BARR:  Thank you, Commissioner Kitts.  Commissioner Gordon?

COMMISSIONER GORDON:  Yes, thank you, Chairman Barr.  I just wanted to make a few comments about the proposed rule changes that we discussed today.  First of all, I think it’s important to recognize that these proposed changes are intended to improve the safety and efficiency of our operations and ensure that we are in compliance with applicable laws and regulations.  I also want to emphasize that these proposed changes are not intended to be overly burdensome or restrictive for our operators or passengers.  Rather, they are designed to provide clarity and consistency in our operations while still allowing for flexibility when needed.  Finally, I want to thank the staff for their hard work in developing these proposed rules and for their dedication to ensuring that our operations remain safe and efficient.

MS. HARRIS:  Yeah, that brings me to the next question.  What do you think are some of the challenges that people face when they’re trying to make a career change?

 I think the first one is that I think it’s important to remember that the goal of this process is to ensure that we have a fair and equitable system for all students.  And so, while we may have different opinions on how best to achieve that goal, I think it’s important to keep in mind that our ultimate goal is to make sure that all students are given an equal opportunity to succeed.

The second comment I would make is that I think it’s important for us to be open-minded and consider all perspectives when making decisions about how best to implement a new system.  We should be willing to listen to different points of view and take into account the needs of all stakeholders in order to come up with the best possible solution.

MR. BERGERON:  Okay, so the other thing that I wanted to talk about was the fact that we have a lot of people who are coming in from out of town and they’re coming in for the weekend and they’re staying in hotels.  And I think it’s important that we make sure that those people are aware of what’s going on in our city and what events are happening.  So I think it would be great if we could partner with some of the local hotels to provide information about events and activities to their guests.  That way, they can get a better sense of what’s going on in our city and maybe even participate in some of the activities.

So, I think it’s important to recognize that these problems are not new. They’ve been there for a long time, and they need to be addressed.

MS. MEADUS:  Yes, I would just add to that, that the Canadian Armed Forces report was very clear in saying that the issues they found were systemic and longstanding. And so, it’s not just about COVID; it’s about how we care for our elderly in long-term care homes in general. And so, I think we need to look at this as an opportunity to really make some fundamental changes in how we care for our elderly in long-term care homes.

MR. BERGER:  Yes, I understand.  I think it was foreseeable that there could be a problem with the system, but I don’t think anyone anticipated the magnitude of the issue that we ended up facing.

MR. WEBB: Yes, I do. I have been a member of the National Association of Realtors since 2009 and am currently a licensed real estate broker in the state of California.

DR. HARRIS:  Yes, absolutely. So the timeline is that we first became aware of the pandemic in late December 2019, when reports started coming out of China about a novel virus that was causing severe respiratory illness. We then began to see cases in other countries, including Canada, in early January 2020. By mid-January, the World Health Organization declared a public health emergency of international concern and by late January, it had been declared a pandemic.

MR. FORD:  Absolutely, and that’s why we took the action that we did.  We were the first province in Canada to declare a state of emergency, and we’ve taken every step possible to protect our most vulnerable citizens.  We’ve implemented strict protocols for long-term care homes, including mandatory testing of all residents and staff, enhanced infection control measures, and increased staffing levels.  We’re also providing additional funding to help ensure these homes have the resources they need to keep their residents safe.

I can’t remember the name of it.  But it was a long-term care home in Toronto, and that inquest had made recommendations about staffing and infection control. And here we are, 20 years later, still talking about the same issues. So I think there has been a lack of planning, and a lack of understanding of what is needed in long-term care.

MRS. WEBB:  That sounds lovely. What kind of amenities does it offer?

MR. JONES:  Right, and it’s still an issue today.  So what do you think needs to be done to address this problem?

MS. MEADUS:  Yes, thank you. The rebuild program has been in place for many years and it was intended to replace the aging long-term care homes with new ones that meet the current standards of care. Unfortunately, due to a lack of funding and resources, the rebuild program has not been able to keep up with the demand for new beds. As a result, many of the existing long-term care homes are overcrowded and do not meet the current standards of care. This has resulted in an increase in isolation and loneliness among residents as well as an increase in health risks due to overcrowding. In addition, there is a lack of access to services such as physiotherapy, occupational therapy, and other specialized services that are needed by residents in long-term care homes.

 Do you want to take a break now?

MR. HARRISON:  Yes, it is.

MS. MEADUS:  I wanted to ask you about your experience with the media. How has it been for you?

MR. HARRIS:  It’s been a mixed bag, to be honest. On one hand, I’ve had some really positive experiences with the media, where they’ve been very supportive and understanding of my story and what I’m trying to do. On the other hand, there have been times when I’ve felt like I was being used as a tool for sensationalism or clickbait, which is something that I don’t appreciate at all. Overall though, I’m grateful for the attention that my story has received and the platform it has given me to speak out about important issues in our society.

 I’m just wondering if you could provide us with a copy of that.

DR. KARIM:  Yes, absolutely.  I can provide you with a copy of the document.

MR. CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.

Ms. Lohnes-Croft.

MS. SUZANNE LOHNES-CROFT:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  I’m going to go back to the issue of the wait times for the assessments and the services that are provided by your department, and I’m just wondering if there is any way that we can speed up those wait times?  Are there any initiatives that you have in place or are looking at to try to reduce those wait times?

MS. MEADUS:  Yes, absolutely.  We have been working very hard over the last few years to reduce our wait times for assessments and services, and we’ve had some success in doing so.  We’ve implemented a number of initiatives, including increasing our capacity for assessment services, expanding our network of service providers, and investing in technology to streamline processes and improve access to information.  We’re also working with other departments and agencies to ensure that people who need services get them as quickly as possible.

Mr. Kostuch:  Yes, I do have it.  It’s a letter from the Ontario Ministry of Education dated April 28th, 2017.  It states that the ministry is aware of the concerns raised by parents and other stakeholders regarding the use of technology in classrooms and that they are committed to ensuring that students have access to appropriate learning resources and supports.  The letter goes on to say that the ministry is working with school boards to ensure that all students have access to safe and secure digital learning environments, as well as appropriate digital tools and resources.

CLIENT:  Great.  Thank you so much for your help.

MS. MEADUS:  You’re welcome.  It was my pleasure to help.

(The meeting was adjourned at 2:10 p.m.)

MR. MCDANIEL: All right, so we were talking about the early days of Oak Ridge and you had just finished telling me about your first job here.

MR. HARRIS: Yeah, I worked at the K-25 plant for a year and then I went to work for the Y-12 plant in ’45. I was there until ’48 when I left to go to school at UT [University of Tennessee]. So that’s where I got my degree in mechanical engineering. And then after that, I came back to Oak Ridge and went back to work at Y-12 in ’51.

MR. MCDANIEL: Now, what did you do when you first went back? What was your job?

MR. HARRIS: Well, it was kind of interesting because they had a program called the Engineer Trainee Program and they hired engineers out of college as trainees and they put them through a training program for two years before they actually assigned them to any particular job or project or anything like that. So that’s what I did for two years and then after that, they assigned me to a project called the Calutron Control System Project which was part of the Y-12 plant operations at that time. So that’s where I started my career as an engineer with Union Carbide Nuclear Division which is now BWXT [BWX Technologies]. That’s where it all began for me in 1951.

MR. MCDANIEL: Now, tell me about this Calutron Control System Project? What was it? What did it do? How did it work? Tell me about it.

MR. HARRIS: Well, basically what it did is control the operation of calutrons which were used to separate uranium isotopes from each other by means of electromagnetic separation process developed by Ernest Lawrence at Berkeley during World War II and used extensively here in Oak Ridge during World War II also for production purposes related to nuclear weapons development programs going on at that time. The calutrons were basically large electromagnets with vacuum tanks inside them and these magnets would be energized with electricity from power supplies located outside the magnet itself and this would cause ions containing uranium isotopes to be accelerated into these vacuum tanks inside the magnet where they would be separated according to their mass differences due to their different atomic weights or masses depending on which isotope you’re talking about separating out from each other by means of this electromagnetic process developed by Ernest Lawrence at Berkeley during World War II and used extensively here in Oak Ridge during World War II also for production purposes related to nuclear weapons development programs going on at that time.. The calutrons were basically large electromagnets with vacuum tanks inside them and these magnets would be energized with electricity from power supplies located outside the magnet itself and this would cause ions containing uranium isotopes to be accelerated into these vacuum tanks inside the magnet where they would be separated according to their mass differences due

“Ensure that all residents in long-term care homes have an Advance Directive in place, and that it is reviewed on a regular basis.”

The second recommendation was to:

“Ensure that all staff are aware of the resident’s Advance Directive and understand their role in implementing it.”

So those were the two recommendations.  And then there was also a third one, which I think was more of a general recommendation, which said:

“Ensure that all staff are aware of the importance of respecting the wishes of residents with respect to their end-of-life care.”

So those were the three recommendations.  And then there was also a fourth one, which I think was more of a general recommendation, which said:

“Ensure that all staff are aware of the importance of respecting the wishes of residents with respect to their end-of-life care.”

"Review and summarize Advance Directives for all residents as part  of community planning with local acute care facility and EMS." And  that was on page 5.  And:  "Communicate with local acute care  hospitals regarding outbreak  including number of residents in the  facility, and number who may potentially be transferred to hospital  if ill, based on Advance Care Directives."

DR. KLEIN:  Yes, I do think that palliative care is not done well in many hospitals.  It’s often seen as a last resort, and it’s not given the attention it deserves.  I think that there needs to be more education and training for healthcare professionals on how to provide effective palliative care, and also more resources devoted to providing this type of care.

MS. MCKINNEY:  Yes, long-term care. So, we have a number of initiatives that are underway to improve the quality of care in long-term care homes. We have a new inspection system that is being implemented across the province, which will provide more consistent and comprehensive inspections of long-term care homes. We also have an enhanced staffing model that is being implemented, which will ensure that there are adequate staff levels in all long-term care homes. And we are also investing in training and education for staff to ensure they have the skills and knowledge they need to provide high quality care.

I think that is a great idea. Having palliative care specialists available 24/7 in long-term care homes would be incredibly beneficial for residents and their families. It would provide them with the support they need to make informed decisions about end-of-life care, as well as provide comfort and peace of mind during this difficult time. Additionally, it could help reduce the burden on hospitals by providing an alternative option for end-of-life care.

So, I think it’s a difficult question to answer.

Yes, pre-COVID palliative care was much better. Palliative care is a type of medical care that focuses on providing relief from the symptoms and stress of a serious illness. It is designed to improve quality of life for both the patient and their family. Pre-COVID, palliative care was more widely available and accessible due to fewer restrictions on healthcare services. Additionally, there were more resources available to support patients and families in need of palliative care services.

MS. MEADUS: No, I do not have any other questions. Thank you for your time.

Yes, palliative care should have a greater presence in long-term care. Palliative care is an important part of providing quality care for those with chronic and terminal illnesses, and it can help to improve the quality of life for those living in long-term care facilities. Palliative care focuses on symptom management, pain relief, emotional support, and end-of-life planning. It can also provide support to family members who are caring for their loved ones in long-term care settings.

 They’re very frustrated that they can’t get into the homes to provide the care that’s needed. So that’s one area where I think there needs to be a lot more focus and attention. The other is dementia care, because again, most people who are in long-term care have some form of dementia. And yet we know that there’s not enough training for staff, and there’s not enough resources for families who are trying to manage their loved ones with dementia. So those are two areas where I think the ministry should be focusing more attention on.

MR. HENRY:  And I think that’s a good thing.  I think it’s a good thing for the industry, and I think it’s a good thing for the consumers.

COMMISSIONER KITTS:  Yeah, absolutely.  So, thank you very much for your presentation today.  We appreciate it.

MR. HARRISON: Yes, that’s right. Long-term care facilities are not always equipped to provide the best palliative care for their residents. They often lack the resources and staff training necessary to provide comprehensive end-of-life care. This can lead to a poor quality of life for those in long-term care, as well as unnecessary suffering at the end of life.

MR. BAILEY:  And then the other thing is, you know, we have a lot of people that are coming in from out of state and they’re buying property here.  And so, you know, I think it’s important to make sure that we’re doing everything we can to make sure that those people are aware of the rules and regulations that are in place for them when they come into our state.

COMMISSIONER KITTS:  Absolutely.  And I think one of the things that we’ve been working on is making sure that all of our real estate agents and brokers are up to date on the laws and regulations so that they can help educate their clients as well.

MR. HARRIS:  Thank you.

COMMISSIONER KITTS:  Any other questions or comments?  Seeing none, I’ll entertain a motion to approve the minutes of the June 15th meeting.

COMMISSIONER DUGGINS:  So moved.

COMMISSIONER KITTS:  Second?

COMMISSIONER JONES:  Second.

COMMISSIONER KITTS:  All in favor?  Aye.  Opposed?  Motion carries unanimously.

 So, we’re trying to do a lot of education around that.  But it’s still an issue.

MR. JONES:  Yes, let’s move on to the detention issue.

“The Chief Medical Officer of Health may issue directives to health practitioners, including long-term care home operators, to help them protect the health and safety of residents in long-term care homes.” So that’s what Directive No. 3 did. It said that no one was allowed out of the home.  Now, there have been some changes since then, but it’s still very restrictive. And so we continue to have this problem where people are being detained in their homes without any legal authority for it.

"The proposed directives relate to health worker safety protective  clothing equipment and advice."

but they didn’t.  So I think that this is an area that needs to be looked at and really thought about, because it’s not the way to manage a pandemic.

COMMISSIONER COKE:  Yes, I did. I was just wondering if the staff had any recommendations on how to address the issue of overcrowding in our schools?

STAFF:  Yes, we do have some recommendations. We suggest that the district look into expanding existing facilities or building new ones to accommodate more students. Additionally, we recommend that the district consider implementing a policy of staggered start times for different grade levels to reduce overcrowding in classrooms and hallways. Finally, we suggest that the district explore ways to increase student enrollment through marketing and outreach efforts.

RESPONDENT:  Well, I think they could have looked at the potential impact of the proposed changes on existing businesses in the area.  They could have done a more thorough analysis of the economic and social impacts of the changes, such as how it would affect local employment and wages.  They could have also taken into account public opinion on the issue, by conducting surveys or holding public hearings.  Finally, they could have considered alternative solutions that might be less disruptive to existing businesses and communities.

 So, I think we have to look at it differently.

MR. HARRIS:  Yes, absolutely. We would be looking at the local context and making sure that we’re taking into account the local situation when we’re making decisions about what restrictions should be in place.

 And so, I think that’s why we’re seeing the pushback now.  And I think it’s important to recognize that they have rights, and that those rights need to be respected.

MR. JONES:  Yes, absolutely. And I think that’s a really important point to make. We need to ensure that all residents in long-term care homes have access to the same rights and protections as those in other settings, and that includes the right to challenge any detention or restriction of their liberty.

Yes, judicial review is available in Canada. Judicial review is a process by which the courts can review the decisions of administrative tribunals and other government bodies to ensure that they are reasonable and consistent with the law. The Supreme Court of Canada has held that judicial review is an important part of our system of government and should be available to all Canadians.

MR. JONES:  Okay, thank you.

MR. MARTIN:  And then the other one is, I think it’s important to note that the — the — the — the — the — the — the — the — the — the —

COMMISSIONER MARROCCO:  Yes.  Go ahead.

MR. MARTIN:  The other thing is that, you know, we have a lot of people who are coming in from out of state and they’re bringing their own vehicles with them and they’re not necessarily registering them in California, so there’s a potential for some additional revenue there as well.

 But I think it’s something that we have to look at on a case by case basis.  And certainly, if there are any issues with access or anything like that, then we can certainly look into it and see what we can do.

MR. HARRISON:  Right, so we don’t have it right now. But what I’m asking is, if the legislation was written to provide for that, would you be in favour of it?

MS. MEADUS:  Yes, I would be in favour of it.

No, that is all. Thank you for your time.

MR. JONES:  Yes, I think that would be great.  I’m particularly interested in hearing your thoughts on how to best support students with special needs in the classroom.

No, that’s all. Thank you for your time.

COMMISSIONER GORDON:  No.

 We’ll be in touch.  Thank you very much.

Thank you, Commissioner Marrocco. We will certainly keep you updated on any new developments and look forward to hearing from you again soon.

MS. MEADUS:  No problem.

Yes, you can purchase a transcript of your submissions. Please contact the court clerk’s office for more information on how to do so.

 I’ll make sure to keep you updated.

MR. WEBB: Thank you all for attending today’s meeting. I appreciate your time and input. The meeting is now adjourned.

END TRANSCRIPT.

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REPORTER’S CERTIFICATE 

That the foregoing transcript of proceedings in the matter of ____________________, held on _______________, 20___, at _________________, is a true and correct record of my stenographic notes taken therein.

I further certify that I am not related to any of the parties or counsel appearing in this matter; nor am I in any way interested in the outcome thereof.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this _____ day of ______________, 20___.

____________________________
Judith M. Caputo, RPR, CSR, CRR

• That the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the time and place therein set forth;
• That all remarks made at the time were recorded stenographically by me and were thereafter transcribed;
• That the foregoing is a true and correct transcript of my shorthand notes so taken.

____________________________ ____________________________

Signature of Seller Signature of Buyer

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